March 4, 2008
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Grammar Gone Wild
A lot of people on my last post said that you should NEVER compromise when it comes to grammar. Sorry guys, sometimes I waver. Here are two examples where I don’t always follow the rulebook:
- Whom versus Who – I know I should use this more often… but I definitely mix and match my whom usage to the crowd that I’m with. If it’s an upper class crowd, I’ll throw in a casual whom as appropriate. If it’s not, I’ll abandon whom faster than you can say, “For whom the bell tolls.”
- Nauseated versus Nauseous - Here’s the official word: “Many people say, when sick to their stomachs, that they feel “nauseous” but traditionalists insist that this word should be used to describe something that makes you want to throw up: something nauseating. They hear you as saying that you make people want to vomit, and it tempers their sympathy for your plight. Better to say you are “nauseated,” or simply that you feel like throwing up.”
I pretty much refuse to say, “I feel nauseated.” I will just avoid the word and say something eloquent like, “I think I’m gonna puke.”
Do you ever find yourself knowingly using the wrong grammar… or just avoiding a word alltogether?
Comments (60)
I have problems spelling occasionally sometimes (or occasionally, ha ha). It’s all the double letters! I might have even spelled it wrong there.
Who and whom became easier when I learned that if you would answer with Him or Her = whom, and He or She = who. I avoid the word penis because it makes me giggle.
I find it amusing to use improper grammar on purpose. It also gives character and personality to one’s speech.
I use “nauseous” incorrectly all the time – I think I’ll adopt your alternative.
Do you ever say “that’s me”? example: you answer the phone, they ask for John, you say “that’s me”. Well that’s technically wrong. Technically we should all follow the knights’ example and say “It is I”, which is grammatically accurate. Technically we’re supposed to use “I” instead of “me” whenever it comes after a form of the verb “to be” (aka “is” and “was”). But I think most people don’t follow that…
At least, this is what I learned in 9th grade English class…
@math_music_me - It’s because of stuff like this that I screen my calls haha!
i can’t help but use wrong grammer alot
Not unless I am trying to use the worst grammar I could. That said I still use less than ideal grammar alot because it is difficult to keep track of most of the rules.
All the great writers bend the rules.
sometimes i say their when i should be saying “there” but it’s really hard for people to tell
i always spell it correctly though
Nah, I never buckle under the pressure to speak poorly simply because others will find me stuck-up. Eventually, they’ll figure out I’m a stuck-up bitch anyhow. HAHAHAHAHA.
Kidding. I probably unknowingly make grammar mistakes…but if I know the correct way to say something, I’ll use the correct word.
So long as someone gets their meaning across, I couldn’t care less whether the grammar is correct or not. Its all a bit moot in this day of IMs and texts anyway.
I do my best not to be improper with my grammar. I’m a writer, it’s important.
i love your entries on grammar…
and yes, if i use wrong grammar, it’s definitely intentional. (like amarisa said a few comments ago, all great writers bend the rules)
also, i can’t say the word “ethereal” unless i practice… and i avoid “nauseated” at all costs.
Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about.
I’m a compulsive spellchecker… you misspelt ‘altogether’ as ‘alltogether’.
There’s using correct grammar on a regular basis, and then there’s being an anal prick about grammar. Anyone who would sneeringly harp on the differentials you posted about would probably fall into the latter category.
The point of all grammar rules in every language is/was to make communication clearer. That is a fact that professional grammarians know and do not dispute. Some rules are archaic or simply just made up (like ending a sentence with a preposition. It’s grammatical to do so, but there are folks who will argue that). And they seem to go against this clarity notion but times and language has changed from when some rules were first instituted.
That being said, your take on the concept is far more accurate and considerate than that of a grammar snob. They typically are not the most effective communicators given a broad range of audiences. And they typically are not well liked because of that. I feel for them though. They love the structure and there is nothing wrong with that eh?
But if you’re able to leap from vernacular to vernacular and class to class adroitly with your language variations and be understood then you kick ass! That is the way a person is supposed to use grammar. It is far more challenging to do that too! But it opens the world of words wide and if you love them (people and the words they use to express themselves) there is so much more to love then.
I teach grammar. But I adore it and consider it a compliment when a person feels they can address me using a dialect reserved for their intimate circles. Well, unless they are being nasty or something.
I’ve always felt that grammar is important. But blogging can be informal and I’m not about to reference the various style manuals out there to make sure my grammar is correct. I guess it would be different if you have a very large audience.
the only time I ever decide to be grammatically incorrect is when I’m typing u as opposed to you. It’s easier to type “u’re awesome!” than “you’re awesome!”. Yeah, other shortcuts too… and maybe run-on sentences like what I just did cuz I dun feel like being formal =D.
I never practice perfect grammar unless I’m writing an essay or paper or feel like throwing a “proper” word in for kicks. Otherwise, I just don’t care.
I live in the redneck boonies…if I use proper grammer NO ONE down here can understand me…LOL
No! Grammar FTW!!!
Today is National Grammar Day, fyi.
I can be a stickler on grammar, but have been known to use slang and ‘slip words’–depends whom I might be dealing with, at the time-hehe!
I use “whom” consistently in writing, but only occasionally in conversational speech. And I generally avoid the word “nauseous,” mostly because I feel it’s kind of gross-sounding and is (rather paradoxically) also another prissy Latinate word that makes something sound “fancy.” I’d rather just say that I’m not feeling well or that my stomach is bothering me.
Nobody is perfect!
i constantly correct other people’s grammer, but i have horrid grammer myself half the time.
i never use the word ‘whom’, at least not in everyday conversations. i never knew the difference between ‘nauseous’ and ‘nauseated’. i use the two words interchangeably, but i do tend to say ‘nauseated’ more often.
grammar are overate.
anyways…
I usually choose to avoid the word, especially around my friend that’s an English major, because there is nothing worse than her butting in to correct your grammar…
the more i’ve been studying linguistics, the more i’ve learned that everything we were taught in high school re: grammar is absolute BS. language is defined by what native speakers say; all that your educational institutions are doing is teaching you appropriate usage for an academic setting, which is as practical as a hatful of dead fish.
using “whom” in some company is equally as wrong as failing to use it in other company. and the level of “wrongness” is very, very minimal either way.
any true linguist will encourage you to create words and play with words and language to strengthen, simplify and beautify communication. that’s what it’s really all about.
great post, john.
I took a class once on the history of the English language. The professor was quite derogatory towards the sixteenth century blue-haired grammarians (his exact term!) who tried to make English a more respectable language by imposing many of the rules of Latin on it. That whole bit about split infinitives? Impossible to do in Latin, since the infinitive is one word, so they made up a rule that it was wrong in English too, when in fact it had always been a perfectly acceptable usage.
I still get a kick out of splitting infinitives, especially when somebody tries to tell me I’m wrong to do so. And the bit about not ending a sentence with a preposition is (as Winston Churchill once said) the kind of nonsense up with which I will not put.
In speech, especially in conversation, the goal is to get your point across. Less than textbook-perfect grammar is fine, as long as it doesn’t distort the meaning of what you’re trying to say. I’m more of a stickler in writing, even casual writing like blog entries.
GGW! WOOT WOOT! you should make this into a regular blog entry and educate us.
it’s “for whom”, “to whom”, “with whom”, “from whom”.
use who when it’s the subject.
I always use “Who kicked Whom” to remember how to distinguish between the two.
never really thought about that but i’m sure i’ve used it incorrectly but thankfully i dont have friends who are anal about correcting grammar
you’ve to be kidding, right?
sometimes i do that when i am feeling lazy, but sometimes i’m obsessive enough to care, and i use whatever references i have available at the moment to make sure i’m correct in grammer and spelling.
punctuation and capitalization are irrelevent to me, though.
(could you tell??)
I try not to. And what really bugs me is reading mispelled words such as ”your” when it should be “you’re” ;(
I sure do…
and i think the nauseous usage bit is an example of the evolving meaning of a word – which naturally happens in languages. in colloquial usage, or even in more erudite settings, saying “i’m nauseous” is definitely understood to mean that you are sick to your stomach, and not someone who will make someone else sick to their stomach. the usage is common and widespread enough that i believe it be proper in the American English lexicon, and Merriam Webster agrees with me! Check out their commentary here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nauseous
People who quibble on things like that are NAUSEATING. bah.
I try to edit my posts/whatever before I turn it in as much as possible, but there’s always red marks on my papers when I get them back.
Well, not a ton of red… My junior year of high school, my teacher, rarely marked my paper
. And would always write things like, “Oh Yes!
” and other awkward things like that… Now… My English teacher tells me I don’t know how to organize my essays. 
Ohhh, I have 5,147 Credits so far… ekk… Long way too go for 100,000! Ohwell, it works!
haha… i’m a bit of a stickler for grammar, being a former english major, but i can also be lenient for the sake of slang. i’ll cut corners….. “gonna” “kinda” “sorta” etc., etc. and i’ll tailor my language to the audience. but… i “gotta” be a huge stickler for using the term “nauseated” cuz that’s just the right term!! i insist!!
I pretty much am the same way. I don’t use whom when it’s a bad crowd. As for nauseated… I’ve used it maybe a handful of times before
For me, It completely depends on the audience and the message.
fun posts you have here
I learned… that for whom… you use if if you would answer the question with HIM as opposed to HE.
This isn’t always true though. One of those quirks to our coded English language that makes no sense
I mean, if newly immigrated people can learn to speak English correctly, so can the people who were born and raised here.
yea, sure, languages evolve and change over time, but I don’t think it should be out of ignorance and stupidity of people who can’t, or otherwise unwilling, to learn to speak correctly.
I didn’t know about that nauseous/nauseating thing. God knows how much grammar minutiae is out there.
Yeah, sometimes I mess around with my grammar, to loosen things up (ain’t is always good for that) or to make points or because I don’t want to sound like a stuck-up snot. That which, for instance, is a good way to just bother people, isn’t it? I like to use it, but it isn’t always appropriate.
@Scriveling - Too true! I’ve heard that business about split infinitives and why they’re illegal. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, we don’t speak Latin, hello?
Anyone who’s read a British novel (Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell, for instance) must have noticed at some point that the English are always ending their sentences with prepositions. And since the English language was theirs to begin with, I figure they know what’s okay and what isn’t.
I used to be much better at grammar. I think you use it or you lose it. And yes, I’m aware of the grammar error I made in my last comment about grammar. I have no excuse.
Wait until you reach my age and forget every doggone grammar rule you learned. Makes you want to bang your head against a wall.
Love your use of ‘puke’ btw.
When I hear people say they’re nauseous I want to giggle because when I hear that, I hear them saying that basically they’re sickening, not sick. Ehehehe. When I was pregnant with my girls I was always… nauseated. And I sait it a lot.
I very often use the wrong grammar intentionally. Usually not specific words, but writing sentence fragments or run on sentences or writing in the passive voice. I do this because writing how I speak often results in prose that has a deeper impact on readers.
I just don’t pay much attention to word choice whatsoever so long as the person who is reading gets what I am saying. Lots of grammatical rules are antiquated and pointless. In the internet, highly connected age, I think efficiency of communication should be prized over so old rules that serve little purpose. But I’m weird like that.
The bit of grammar that is rapidly becoming common usage, but which infuriates me nonetheless, is use of a plural verb when the subject of the sentence is singular, i.e.
“Acrowd of people were coming down the road”, instead of the correct “a crowd of people was coming down the road.” Crowd is the subject of the sentence, it is a singular noun, so should attract a singular verb. Another gem is the use of “rooves” as in horses’ hooves, instead of “roofs.” Aaaaaaaaaaaaagggggh !
yes i do. if i am not sure i usually check the dictionary or try to find another word instead.
“I’m nauseous” cracks me up — it reminds me of Hart’s (cartoonist) “The Peasants Are Revolting!” http://www.amazon.com/Peasants-Are-Revolting-Wizard-Book/dp/044913671X
Anyway…
i am really a stickler for grammar but like you, it depends on my audience. most of the time i try to write properly and succeed, but if it’s a super casual blog spot, i can abandon my stick…
If I cannot use a word correctly, I would never use it as I do not want to be left in a sticky situation.
I definitely find myself in the middle of situations where all of a sudden I want to use a word that I’m unsure of its context. However, I usually try to find out a.s.a.p. what the correct way is. It’s not that I want to try and impress everyone, or even a certain group of people . . . but I want to sound educated and be as clear as possible with my communication. If I don’t find out how to correctly use a word for some time, I will find myself avoiding it until I do find out, unless I’m trying to sound smart and think the other person won’t notice if I’m totally correct or not.
One other thing though – I disagree with your previous blog about “insure” and “ensure”. I’ve never had a problem with those two words, and always use it correctly (just because I know how to use them, not because I’ve obsessed over using them in the right context). Saying that pretty much everyone uses those two interchangeably or with no regard to if one is really correct is kind of a false statement. I understand there are a lot of people who aren’t good with words that are so similar like that, but there are a lot of us out there (who aren’t any better than anyone else, mind you) that just never have hard time with the words and know how to use them, and thus do use them, correctly.
i dont use words like that all the time… i really hate the word… ENABLED… what exactly does that mean… well i know what it means it just sounds wrong… PEACE