October 16, 2008
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Does School Matter?
I was talking to a friend, and he was telling me how if he was choosing between two candidates equal in every way besides education… he would choose the candidate from Harvard (or Stanford/Yale/etc.).
I would actually probably choose the one that had gone to the state school. I have been thinking about why, and I don’t have a great answer. But it reminded me of a saying I heard once: “A students work for B students, and B students work for C students.”
When I first heard it, I thought it was bunk… but as I’ve gotten older, I’ve been stunned at how true it can be. Don’t get me wrong – it’s not an ironclad rule… I know plenty of successful A students. But I’ve been hugely surprised by the number of B and C students who are hugely successful.
I guess I am wondering if maybe school isn’t that important. The best schools… the best grades… does it really matter?
Comments (98)
Nope! Grades don’t matter at all once you graduate. It’s what you do with the knowledge and experiences you gain in college that count. However, being an alum of a a well known school does have it’s advantages as far as how alums look after and favor other alums from their alma mater.
It’s true…a lot of times “A” students are very studious, but not actually great at relating to people…ergo, the B and C students can “talk” their way up the corporate ladder rather than just doing the work.
School is a good, solid foundation, but you have to be a hard-working, credible person to succeed. (That, or a complete scumbag
)
The person is what matters. I don’t have to go to the biggest, or the best, or the most expensive law school to get a great education. I’m lucky I picked a school, and they picked me back, that benefits my learning styles and needs. It’s an environment for my success and that is what is important.
I think that the name of a college is just that: a name. I went to a really great state school, and I can’t imagine that I’d have gotten a better education at another institution.
Getting good grades proves one of two things: that you’re naturally smart, or that you work hard to get those grades. If it’s the former, that doesn’t mean you will perform will in the “real” world, because you might lack a solid work ethic (this isn’t hard and fast, just a possibility). If it prives the latter, you might have more success in the “real” world, because you’ve had to form a good work ethic and work hard to earn those grades.
But none of those things means that you have good people skills, or you work well as part of a team, or that you can handle a crisis or work related stress with any sense of grace. Those things can’t be taught in school, and they are very important.
You need more than grades in the world. And Harvard vs State School doesn’t matter either except for bragging rights. As peopel have said, it’s all about the person.
Relating to the election; McCain was kind of bottom of his class. At that point he’s a step from a ‘not graduating’ student. That may make a little difference.
And I thought I would have voted for McCain.
School results could indicate how kids worked and fitted in at a certain time in their life and how much money their parents could or would invest. If results drop there should be a good investigation but sometimes teachers can’t be bothered to see the signs. I am dreaming about a world where children are cherished and protected, so they can develop their talents be part of the society.
A degree of some sort is important in the job market, as I’ve found out due to my lack of one. While an Ivy League degree might be impressive on your resume, it will only get you into the building. It’s the impression you leave during the interview that will either land the job or send you packing.
I know people without college degrees making more than those who finished grad school. Let’s face it, diploma (Ivy league or less) does not always equal the X factor that’ll get you on the right career track.
I think it matters to a certain degree, but it doesnt have to.
No, it doesnt matter. As long as you’re well-rounded and able to function in society
It’s a prestige thing. Which is the sad part. Going to Harvard doesn’t make the quality of education any better or worse than the average Community College. Harvard employs at a higher salary, so does that mean they get better talent in the professor pool? Not really; I’ve learned from some greats who taught at OSU. It’s all about the talent of the individual. And I’m with you, I’d hire the other guy–he’ll be cheaper in the long run and still be just as good, if not better.
I guess what really matters is what the employers think, and the quality of the work an indivudal does, i.e , no idea really.
Ivy League schools. don’t they signal a certain social background?
At my company, people at my level all went to A schools. However, the top 3 executives went to B schools. Much of our capital comes from successful businessmen who went to C schools.
Overall, I don’t think a person who went to a C school will be more successful than a B school graduate. However, the most successful C school grad may be more successful than an A school graduate.
Not really; I have a high powered city job and I never even finished two years of college.
IN YOUR FACE FORMAL EDUCATION
“A students work for B students, and B students work for C students.”
i feel like a classic example of just that.
i started out as an overachiever in every sense that a student could be one, but as the years passed i stopped caring for things that i felt were irrelevant to me and focused only on what i thought was interesting. with that mindset, i excelled in computers, english, and creative classes but everything else fell to the wayside.
now, all these years later, most of my peers (many of who did quite well in school) are stuck in jobs that they hate and it makes me question whether or not school really matters in the end.
Personally I think that the school really depends on the degree. Schools typically have some kind of specialty. Some schools have great engineering departments others are more geared toward liberal arts. I think a fancy school just means a fancy price tag, not a better education.
@Drakonskyr - That’s awesome., HAHA.
I agree w/Drakonskyr. While I do think there are benefits of a college education, I don’t necessarily think it’s a one-fits-all situation. It depends on the individuals, the teachers, the classes, etc.
This is good for a little historical perspective.
Mmm, as Andrew is currently applying for grad school, I hate to say that reality is, school matters, simply because people evaluate one another based on the name of a school. A part time MBA program isn’t as prestigious as a full time MBA program. The best public school (e.g. UC Berkeley) doesn’t hold the same clout as Stanford or Harvard. It’s assumed that someone who was accepted to a prestigious school must have gone through an extreme filtering process by the admissions people, when in reality, the person may have had connections or money. But, it’s no secret that the top private schools accept people who they believe will broaden their sphere of influence in the world, regardless of intellect. So, does school determine aptitude? No. But, I do think it does affect they way others perceive someone.
As for grades, I think grades are more of an indicator of a personality type. Typically, good grades are a result of persistence and hard work. Even the smartest people need to do some studying to get good grades. So someone with a 4.0 GPA could be someone who is very disciplined, driven, and focused, which are all good qualities. That’s not to say someone without good grades doesn’t have those qualities, but again, grades = a filter. If you’re looking to hire someone, good grades = less risky.
Nah.
Being the product of a state university, I hope it’s not where you came from that matters. In my case, it’s been more about my experience. I got a job offer before my last semester of college. I had a lot of friends that went to more supposedly prestigious schools and didn’t have jobs when they got out. I think grades do matter to some degree but I’m a big advocate of people getting out and getting internships and experience while they’re still in school. It’s a resume boost and actually shows you can be a functioning member of the “real world.”
i was just thinking about this today. im an education major…i’ve been a B and C student my whole life, but i find that sometimes when discussing certain subjects with people, i know more or have more to add to the conversation than the people who never have gotten less than an A-.
i really dont think that grades mean a damn thing. if you are good at short-term memorizing, you can cram yesterday, ace any standardized test today, and forget it all tomorrow. i’ve never been an awesome test taker, and i hated doing assignments, but i would go home and give my mom a play-by-play of everything i had learned.
back when i was younger i was okay with the statewide standardized tests because i didn’t understand that i was being evaluated. this was just another test. i used to place top in my school back in the elementary and middle school days, but once i started realizing the pressures that came with standardized testing, the added stress messed up my confidence. come on, there are tests that you take that determine whether or not you make it out of high school…or whether or not you get into college, etc! and we discuss these things in class it’s the added pressure and anxiety that comes with school that effs most people up.
and now that im in college, it’s like…the more academic awards that you can get the better your life will be! why should that determine someone’s future? there are people who arent in college who are way smarter than these ‘scholarly’ people.
so…i could talk about this all day lol but what im saying is, i think that SCHOOL is important, but the way that schools determine the intelligence of their students is COMPLETELY irrelevant. they need a new game plan.
It’s complementary along with other things like people-smarts/experience.
Dear John,
I was an A student, and I believe I work for former D students at times. (Don’t tell anybody)
The world might not necessarily need brick and mortar schools as in the past. Almost all human experience and intelligence can be found in cyberspace. However, we still need “education” with qualified teachers to point out which information is correct, since a lot of mankind’s experience and intelligence has to be questioned.
So the question shouldn’t be “do schools matter” but “does education matter” and it still does, as it always has.
Michael F. Nyiri, poet, philosopher, fool (3.86GPA 120IQ)
I think the biggest benefit of going to a school like Harvard or Stanford is the networking it allows you to do. I think schools matter much more than grades do.
good question. i’ve thought about this alot too. i think going to a good school is important but it definitely doesn’t make or break you. i have seen so many successful people that have not gone to top notch schools and they are doing just fine. i really think it has more to do with pure hard work and being driven to succeed in whatever you are good at. basically, if you have a talent or a passion for anything, you have to use it. school is an asset, not a requirement.
ugh… I hope not.
it kinda matters more what you do outside of class… although i am too asian to let go of my A’s
For the most part, most of what I learned in school I forgot( except for being bullied and the fights).If I want to learn something, I know how to search the internet,lol. If I don’t need something, I don’t bother looking for it.
I went to a 2nd tier law school but i had to work SO much harder to get to the same job someone from a 1st tier law school.
i am sending my kids to state school – my bros went to stanford. and while their education was first class….many other skills were left undeveloped becasue of the bubble they lived in. W estate school kids had to rough it
@KNEESOXROCK - McCain went to the Naval Academy. Do you know what it takes to get into, much less graduate, from a military academy? Those schools are just as competitive, if not more, than Ivy League colleges.
And I doubt a Harvard graduate comes out of school ready to command a military unit.
If you have more reason to not vote for McCain, fine, but if not, that’s pathetic.
@saxy_grrl - I am not old enough to vote. And the last little comment meant I still would vote for McCain.
I seem to be confused. He went to college through the army, correct? Isn’t higher education part of the army-thing he was in? And, Sen. McCain was not a good student. He has said so himself. He didn’t work at it and was a rebel.
Since when must one command the military to run a country? Education and healthcare are not military related. Yes, the war. But that is another topic.
I would vote for the student from a state school, because I think that kind of person would be more in touch with the country as a whole, not just the rich kids in it.
Good thing I got all B’s and C’s, then. I WILL RULE YOU ALL.
@saxy_grrl - I found the source of my confusion. I saw “Navy” and thought it was a program through the actual Navy.
I just want a smart president. Street smarts are nice, but book smarts would be nice too.
@KNEESOXROCK - I apologize for misunderstanding your last comment. I read it to mean that you would have voted for McCain if he hadn’t been bottom of the class. My bad *~*
You are confused on one part – he was in the navy, and he went to a college specifically designed to make students into effective naval officers (meaning, it wasn’t an ROTC program.) But you are right that he has admitted that he wasn’t a good student. But he did graduate and go on to flight school, which is still a significant achievement at the academy.
Since when must one command the military to run a country? Part of being the president is being the Commander in Chief of the entire U.S. military. Like you said, it’s not the only responsibility of the president, but it is an important part of the job. As for the other parts, his experience as a member of the Senate should help.
I hope you don’t think I want to get in a big e-argument about the merits of John McCain’s education. That wasn’t my intent in this response. Again, sorry for misunderstanding your comment. I hope this cleared some things up… even though I know you didn’t ask for it! *.*
@saxy_grrl - Ah. Like pre-Navy stuff. I am peicing it together…
Absolutely true.
Of course. There is not point to online arguements. This has been an educational exchange, thank you.
@KNEESOXROCK - Like four years of Ivy League-level education with an officer’s commission and at least five years of required military service upon graduation… and now I’m officially done with the educational rants. You’re welcome.
By the way, I totally agree — knee sox do rock! ;P
it’s how much booty u can smooch and how well you can fake it (more than a pr0n star).
@AvenueToTheReal - what if i was a d student… you would have to work for me and u can’t trump me, cuz then u’d fail out of school… pwned.
i’m so sick of school! please tell me it doesn’t matter so i can drop out
yes it does. they’re indicators. sure some low achievers buck the trend.
but in terms of “likelihood” if you make good grades, you’re one-third of the way there. the other two-thirds being mentally and physically stable.
seriously, when is it a disadvantage to have a good head on your shoulders? i’m not saying B students/ C students don’t have it going on upstairs but obviously someone who made good grades and went to a good school should indicate they’re not a low-watt bulb.
of course, it’s what you make of your opportunities that ultimately matters most.
it all depends. the whole picture.
School is just a building block* something you HAVE to go through
But once you’ve graduated*
Its all up to your personality/ the connection you have with people
Thats what Employers will be grading you on
Not how many A’s or B’s you HAD**
Where you went to school and your grades usually only matter most when you are starting off. But, after you have been out for a while, nobody really cares. They just care if you can get the job done. Of course, the pedigree degree doesn’t hurt and if you went to a pedigree school you should have access to lots of resources and connections. I am a lawyer and there is a saying “The ‘A’ student becomes the law professor; the ‘B’ student becomes the judge and the ‘C’ student becomes the lawyer.”
some of you are on crack. Of course it matters. It’s about playing the percentages.
If you get good grades, you get into a good school. If you get into a good school the chances of you going to an elite institute or company in whatever you are doing, is higher.
Compare all the people from an Ivy League school versus a a state school and you’ll find that the majority of the people from an Ivy school are more successful. To take it a step further, say if you want to work on wall st. Guess what, people hire their own. So if a good percentage of traders are from UPenn. If you’re an alum from there, then your chances go up.
A good school makes it a lot easier to get your foot in the door. Once you’re there however, it doesn’t make a bit of difference. But until you do, it makes all the difference in the world.
depends on what you’re looking for what you’re hiring.
i don’t ask questions about grades, i just want to know you did it, and what kind of courses you took.
experience and what kind of projects or activities they did matter within the first 5 years of graduating. it’s in those first 5 years of experience that will prove whether or not someone is able to apply the concepts they learned in school.
…and then you can see the differences between the quality of schools. i find top school grads have a larger bandwidth to take on work, and maintain a level of quality i like.
As a rule, A students don’t take risks, so it’s no wonder they rarely become hugely successful.
Not much.
nope, it doesn’t. I went to a ghetto public school and my friends went to an Ivy League school. I’ve gotten comparable (or even better) jobs and they’re busy paying off their loans. HA!!
i really don’t think it matters. i know a lot of people who sucked it up in college and now they’re really successful/making really good money. grades only really seem to matter when you’re applying for grad school, but otherwise i think working hard will get you further in the long run.
School presents many learning opportunities that will not be found elsewhere. But those opportunities are only meaningful if you take advantage of them. A degree from Harvard can be just as useless to you as a degree from Podunk U.
Bill Gates dropped out of college to start a company and became the richest man in the world. Raw ability I think is what matters the most.
schools show ambition. if the position is right for someone with
ambition, hire the one with the pedigree. if it’s a regular job where
you want the person to get along with regular coworkers, hire the
stater.
No.
I think I may be with you on this one.
The reason so many B and C students think grades dont matter is that the number of 2.0-3.5 students outnumber the excellent A students by an order of magnitude or two. Stanford graduates 1000 per class. Your state schools can graduate 5x that or more and have humongous alumni bases. Plus there are so many damn state schools compared to the number of elite universities. So of course the number of “success stories” coming from mediocre students will far outnumber those from stanford/harvard/yale/etc.
The truth is graduates from the elite universities and those with great grades coming from decent schools are BY FAR disproportionately represented among the wealthy, the business leaders, medical schools, law schools, etc. An in particular- academia.
The biggest, best, well paying law firms poach from top 15 schools. If you go to a top 10 law school, even the worst students are guaranteed jobs. At 30th ranked law school you have to be at the top of your class.
Same with medical schools. The most competitive specialties and residency programs cherry pick from the students with the best grades and board scores. And make no bones about it- in general they are by far the better clinicians. (Medicine is different from the business/marketing/office-politics world in that merit rules over bullshitting ability)
- stanford cs grad, former engineer turned med student
ps i’ve taken classes at davis, san jose state, and santa clara and the competition isn’t even close. It is way easier to get an A at any of those institutions than to pull a B at Cal or Stanford. I’ll take a 3.0 Cal/Stanford student over a 4.0 SJSU student every time.
i’ve been finding that students who graduated at the top of their class
at large state schools (like cal and ucla) are more competent than
similarly ranked students at top ivy league schools. the competition
is much fiercer at prestigious state schools, especially since students
must work under conditions with fewer resources and compete against ten
times as many students. it’s a good training in reality. the ivy
league summa cum laudes may be brilliant, but they also have a harder
time harnessing their raw intelligence in the “real world” (unless they
are researchers and become nobel laureates). they also tend to folllow
certain prescribed paths: medicine, law, finance, or research– and do
very well in those sectors.
both my husband and i graduated in the top 2% of our classes, he from
harvard, i from ucla. i would dare say we are intellectual equals yet
it’s been interesting meeting each other’s social worlds. it seems
like his college friends’ careers pretty much fall in the
aforementioned 4 categories, whereas it would be pretty difficult to
generalize the career spectrum of my friends. i guess the implication
here is that harvard grads who are going to apply for jobs outside
those 4 categories may somehow not be as ambitious and competent as a
high-achieving ucla grad who may not be constrained by similar
pressures to conform to certain career paths.
also, why should someone’s career performance potential be measured by
how ambitious they were when they were a teenager? i always thought my
harvard-obsessed peers were total freaks of nature- they were way too
high strung and couldn’t enjoy life. every act and effort seemed to be
in relentless pursuit to get into the best college possible, which just
struck me as disingenuous and shallow at the time. my own ambition
didn’t really kick in until after college and i don’t think there is
any loss in my life for that (and definitely no student loans).
just went and read through your comments for kicks. pretty amusing.
one thing to realize is that the great majority of your responders have jobs where bullshitting ability and networking is 80% of what earns them promotions.
Which is fine if I’m hiring salespeople. But let’s not get it twisted.
But when I was out interviewing engineers I want people who are analytical and smart.
As a former code-monkey i realize that it takes no brains to make the next iteration of blogger/facebook/xanga.
But the stuff that really DRIVES scientific innovation- google search algorithm, new chip fabrication processes, storage techniques, genetic search techniques, artificial intelligence, neural networks, quantum computing, aerospace technology, stem cell research, robotics, cancer research, surgical techniques— I could go on an on for pages. 90% of the innovation and technology is driven by the 5% of the population with the sick grades. The guys like Hennessy who came up with RISC architecture etc don’t get 4.0s because they work hard. They get straight A’s and get into PhD programs etc because it’s fuckin easy for them.
What’s sad is that unlike the academic world, it’s C and D students who end up in politics because of their connections.
@tehgimp - Totally agree that the top schools have a much higher caliber of student, and that competition is more intense there.
Just to clarify though – I wasn’t thinking much about innovation and technology. I was referring more to risk tolerance, I guess. A students generally take less risks, and so even if they are super smart… are less likely to start companies and more likely to work for someone else.
You have to be able to name why “A students work for B students, and B students work for C students” occurs so often.
Who works for whom is decided according to how saturated a society is with anti-intellectualism (the warrior-on-top model rather than greater balance of power between warriors and intellectuals) but is also decided according to demonstrated EQ (emotional-social intelligence) more than IQ, though IQ matters. So that’s the big and small picture of it.
Obama has demonstrated both EQ and IQ in ways that impact not only his character and ability to act but that positively impacts those around him and attracts like. He also speaks to a greater balance of intellect and things warrior, which is why “Wouldn’t it be nice to have a SMART president?” is a popular meme now.
That is how A students are the boss (or president!) and you can see some of the best people and well synched highly efficient teams working for him, something apparent when looking at numerous aspects of his campaign (and before) , – you can even see it in his official campaign site navigation. That degree of consistency points to well meshed EQ and IQ — crucial because greater consistency is key. This can bridge and repair so much instead of bringing us to ruin and cutting us off from international support, something especially important due to the growing Pan-Islamic phenomenon and incredible economic and social change on a global scale.
what’s a, b, and c students?
hmm? anyway, education is there so that no one can easily fool you. yeah… go figure
School never mattered to me from the 10th grade on. It was in the 10th grade that I was taking 12th grade classes, and although I didn’t finish at the top of those classes, I found that they weren’t that much harder than the 10th grade stuff. At that point, I realized there was more to life than school.
I still went to community college after I graduated high school, but only because it was a scholarship that my parents expected me to take. Truth is, I was bored out of my gourd sitting in a classroom. I managed to get through a year of college before I decided it was time to do my own thing. 10 years later and still no degree, I make $225k per year while being a part of things that people don’t even know about. My job is 100% legal, and I was voted Most Likely to Succeed in high school…bet no one thought I’d ever do it without a degree.
I’m doing my Master’s in Law – and my manager never went to uni
It wouldn’t bother me off in the slightest if he didn’t keep questioning my judgement (even when proven wrong every. single. time.) – it’s infuriating.
actually, school does matter…it will open doors that would otherwise not be available to you if you went to less known school.
doesnt matter best school or not. i just think that at least, the basic education is necessary.
i feel their choice of school is an insignificant matter when its in comparison to leading our country and getting our economy resurrected.
@XobronzebombshelloX - Ah sorry, when I said “candidates”… I meant, job candidates!
@john - ohhhh!!! wowwwww i definitely missed that! well funny thing is now i feel that school does matter. funny how i’d prefer a good school w/ an employee and not a presidential candidate =/
I find it relly difficult to enteract w/ a text book & I know several ‘text book’ ppl who display very little common sense. I’ll take an experienced ‘ppl person’ any day. I realize that black on white (good grades) makes for a strong 1st impression but just take a look @ our current congress & big bsns leaders most of whom are ‘well educated’ & tell me where that’s gotten us? nough already!!
Anything you do does not matter unless you have dedication and happiness when doing it.
I believe that. Probably because I stopped being the A student in middle school. Tenacity can’t always be measured by the grades that a person makes.
I guess it depends. I wouldn’t want my surgeon who is ready to open me up and spill out my guts on a table to graduate from Phoenix University.
Nahh.
I think that this is a great point that you make. Although some people are amazing when it comes to their GPA, it really proves nothing. Yes, most people think that the straight A students with perfect extra-curriculars and the amazing grades are going to be thought of as responsible and someone that should be hired because they know what they’re doing. At least that is the general consensus, yes? It’s amazing the role that stereotypes play in our society.
In my opinion the reason that A students can often work for B students is because the students with A averages have never actually really learned how to budget their time. It can’t always be all work and no play. There’s a breaking point eventually when school, work, responsibilities, whatever it is, doesn’t matter any more if you don’t budget your time. Maybe that’s why you don’t trust someone with a Harvard degree versus a degree from a state school.
Somehow I never factored college into my voting decisions. I just never thought if it that way.
Huh.
@ClockworkBunny - Sorry, I meant job candidate… not political candidate!
@john - Oh, haha. And here I was wondering if everyone else was considering Obama and McCain’s diplomas and I was missing something! XD
i hope grades don’t matter
The way I see it, I somehow managed to graduate with a CUMGPA of 1.9, now I pull a 3.5 in college with job offers lined up after I graduate this year… Like I was saying, the way I see it, if you can do it, and do it well, then your (for the most part) going to be doing it, and being rewarded as such. Half of my grade is now dropped out of school, or being a bartender, or pregnant, or in a factory… etc etc.
If their happy, whatever, but their good grades in school didnt serve them to well now did they
@john - ”A students generally take less risks, and so even
if they are super smart… are less likely to start companies and more
likely to work for someone else.“
This is patently false.
While it is true ivy league school type students are overrepresented in the more traditional success fields such as law, medicine and business schools… it has little to do with any inherent fear of risk much more than it is a mature, measured, risk weighted decision. For people smart enough to get into these fields, it is almost a guaranteed return. I think it’s more common sense than risk aversion. For medicine in particular, people almost have to be crazy to do it- 100-200k+ in loans 7-11 years of post grad training and untold hours of sacrifice… that’s a one big freaking 10 year gamble. Let’s not forget the number of lawyers and doctors who end up starting their own clinics and firms.
As far as being afraid to start companies? Ever hear of Steve Wozniak? Mark Zuckerberg? Larry Page? Sergey Brin? Pretty good students. Big name schools. Maybe it is different at Stanford but I knew lots of guys who dropped out for a semester or more to start companies. A lot of guys who worked on starting companies while going to school. There was a time while I was on campus (before they exploded) where infant-google wouldn’t take your resume unless you were a masters/phd student. That company is littered with Stanford products, and I think they’re doing OK. I guess they ultimately “work” for someone else but I know a bunch of millionaires who now have some big damned titles and dozens working under them.
A guy in my freshman dorm started a software company in high school… he also brought with him his own medical patent. Another person I know is working as a chef. Other people go on to become authors. A couple of my friends were fulbright scholars who ended up overseas for several years working for almost nothing. To suggest that elite alumni are risk averse because their intelligence buys them so many other options is ridiculous.
The entrepreneur / business-starting classes, fairs and clubs at Stanford were crazy and companies were throwing ridiculous money at us. Ivy league alumni are way overrepresented in the fortune 500, 5000. There is a reason why despite having a fraction of state school alumni schools and zero money from the state, schools like Harvard and Stanford have bazillions bigger endowments than the best public universities- It’s not even close. Our alumni are in positions of power and make shitloads of $$$. Many of the risk-averse academics who end up as professors have their feet in many different drug and tech companies and make shitloads sitting on executive boards.
Like I mentioned, the deception is all in the numbers. It’s like high school football recruiting (a minor obsession of mine). You always hear about the college walk-on or 2star recruit who gets a tryout in the NFL and goes on to have a long career. You read about how many more 3star players there are in the NFL than 5 stars, and you read about the 5-star busts who never pan out. But you have to realize there are only 25 5-star recruits every year, 300 4star recruits and 500+ 3-star players. The teams built on 5-star players (USC) by far dominate and those players are on averge much more likely to be come stars at the next level, despite the publicized busts.
I’m not suggesting there aren’t gems at state schools. It’s just a numbers thing. If I want to start the next google (or usc fb team), I don’t want ‘good enough’ talent. I want to go badass shopping. The badasses are the exception at your run of the mill state school, while your cal/stanford has a relative wealth of them. I was an above average student but never anything special at my engineering classes at Stanford. Definitely not a badass. But I took ‘tough’ classes at davis/sjsu/santa clara and I was always the top 1/2/3 student while working full time and never studying.
I’m not suggesting that all ivy-league alumni are cream of the crop. There are many bad eggs and lots of spoiled jackass rich people (yay for financial aid). But unless you’ve gone to a top5 school you don’t realize what kind of sick talent you accumulate when you can cherry pick from the best of the best. And being surrounded by the best is what pushes you to be better. All things remaining the same, i’ll take my chances recruiting from the elite schools.
Some people are talented enough to have a life and make all A’s…others make average grades and have a life. Maybe that is why the B and C students are doing so well…they know how to live.
My mom and a lot of her friends came over to America from Vietnam with no college education (my mom dropped out of high school) They are all successful entrepreneurs now. Education helps… people who are successful in school are going to be successful in life. Does it make one person better than the next? probably not.. But as long as you have a determination to be on top, schooling should never matter.
It’s the person who will ultimately create the impression of a good and hardworking worker, not his ivy league uni or his awesome school grades.
In a sense, it’s a question of what it matters for.
You’re assuming that people who get As, Bs, and Cs are identifiable with others who get the same grades. But a lot of the rich people that wind up in management knew as kids that they were set, so they didn’t work hard enough to get the As. Thus they became the B/C people who wound up in charge of the As.
Therefore the obvious conclusion – that As are detrimental to your success – is probably not true.
@tehgimp - That’s a pretty lengthy response. I’m impressed by how much you thought it out.
@moritheil - um, thanks. it was rather longwinded i thought, but a minor pet peeve of mine. i am on an a med school admissions committee and there is a lot of discrimination against ‘ivy league’ schools because they think grades from these institutions are ‘inflated.’ “A” students aren’t any better or worse than others. But they just tend to be smarter and more intellectually capable. It doesn’t prove anything, of course… but statistically the odds of an “A” student being successful > “B” student odds >>> “C” student odds.
Honestly it’s just not that hard to get a freaking B. C students are dumb, lazy or have personal problems.
i would like to say that education/school doesnt matter…but i would be lying
as a highschool A+ student turned college B-/C+ student, i hope that saying is so true… =D
a girl who had passed by*
“School” is just a conspiracy to keep us niggas down…but you’re right about that saying…we’re about to have an A student working for a nation of F minus meatheads
And speaking of presidents…how will Dan the MEologian be changing Xanga next???
There are obviously a lot more issues on it than just the one I’m thinking of here. Everyone is an individual person; of course it’ll differ from case to case.
But, having done both private and state over here, I find very often that the graduates of private establishments are very book-smart, but not street-smart. Often they have no common sense whatsoever. And that, of course, can translate very easily into the workplace.
I used to be an A student, right up to the point when I switched systems. The marks I got afterwards, at Bs and Cs, were still perfectly good enough to get me onto the university courses I wanted. But the drop in marks coincided with an increase in my happiness, and I’d like to think, my common sense and experience.
hi, this is kind of irrelevant to your post BUT! I was wondering, is there a way to bring back a xanga that has been shut down? I shut down a xanga a couple of years back and was wondering if I could bring it back to life! Well an answer would be greatly appreciated. Please email me at helenxpp@gmail.com THANKS!
We could as other questions as well:
Does rank matter? Does your position on the corporate ladder determine your quality of life or your worth as a person?
I think education is very beneficial, but I think we worship it too much. It’s not the end of the world if someone doesn’t finish or even have higher education. And getting into an ivy-league school is also overrated- I mean it’s awesome if you can, but how much you learn is at least if not more dependent on the dedication and the drive of the student.
Grades are supposed to be indicative of how you are performing in a class, and a test is supposed to (wait for it) test to see where you are. It is true that colleges and employers do look at the grades of their applicants, but how empty of a goal is trying to earn a letter?
Having good grades is a good thing, but they should not be an end in and of itself (like most good things).
I’m currently an engineering student and after a particularly poor exam grade that puts a substantial merit scholarship in jeopardy, I realized that things weren’t going the way I had anticipated or planned. But it’s going to be alright- I’ll just have a new set of challenges to face.
To know what matters, you need to know the purpose- what’s truly important. And remember that there is more to education and learning than grades or schooling. A lot of learning should happen in the home as well…
Good luck!
I think a lot of times those who get all A’s in school aren’t so great at real-life, interacting, or getting jobs. But there’s always those superawesome kids who can somehow do everything at once perfectly.
At seventeen I’m glad to hear I have a chance at being successful even though I don’t always make the honor roll!
it only matters if you think it matters. if it’s in your value system to matter. if not, then of course it doesn’t. it may propel you forward into that supreme bubble of the successful, but then people often miss out on the little goodies in life, like a good friend or quiet time by the river or something. if success is your fire, then follow it. it you’re more tree-hugging and loveable, then top notch schools may not be your priority. there are lots of people, however, who are both super smart and super sweet, who go to top notch schools and lead fulfilling lives.
what an uninformative exposition i have here.