December 2, 2007
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Water Works
My wife and I took a rare trip out of town, and so we had a little downtime. So of course, we went nuts and played Monopoly (it’s Saturday night, we were feeling crazy).
Her family had many rules which didn’t jibe up with mine (and vice versa). Among the many controversies:
- If you fail to roll doubles the third time (while in jail), you actually have to pay $50 to the bank anyway. You also have to advance to whatever property the dice amount shows, even if you didn’t roll a double.
- When you return a house, you don’t have to return three houses at a time – you can just return one house, in the reverse order that you built them out.
- There is no such thing as Free Parking taxes and fees!!!!!
But one controversy outshone them all, and the rules book didn’t have the answer. The Water Works utility card says, “If both Utilities are owned, rent is 10 times amount shown on dice”:
What if I own both utilities and someone lands on my Water Works… but my Electric Company is mortgaged. Should I get 4x the dice or 10x?
My theory was that I should: I do own both utilities. It’s just that I took out a mortgage against it. You still own equity in a house when you have a house mortgage.
My beloved wife said that I don’t own both utilities, since I mortgaged 50% of my equity which the bank owns. Actually now that I am typing it out, her case makes a lot more sense to me.
Still, I think I was right haha. What do you think: did I own both Utilities? Or did I only own one…
The future of my marriage may depend on this!
ps just responding to some of the comments… my marriage doesn’t actually depend on the answer here. We’re both just curious what people think!
Comments (49)
One and a third. Duh.
Ummm I tend to think if you have the card for them whether they are mortgaged or not they are still yours. You still own your house if you take out a 2nd mortgage out on it.
I mean you own it but you owe the bank too. If I buy a car I owe the bank the money for it, but I still own the car. Right?
Normally, I would say you still own it regardless of the mortgage. However, if your marriage is thrown into the mix, it’s always best to agree with the wife. Trust me on this.
you have 1 property and it someone lands on it. however, that property is mortgaged. you do not receive the money you are owed.
therefore, you will only get 4x the amount instead of 10x
hey bro…sorry but you were wrong.
If the player lands on an unmortgaged property owned by another player,
he pays rent to that person, as specified on the property’s deed.
thats rule 2 of the monopoly rules….
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Monopoly/Official_Rules
because it was mortgaged…..she don’t have to pay you anything. =/
dont banned my xanga now please….
usually the taxes and fines go to free parking. its like the lottery in real life.
you wife is a wise person…..hope you can make your marriage work bro.
dont do this to my xanga….=(
She’s right. Even if she’s wrong, she’s right. See rule #1 of the Marriage Handbook…”If Momma ain’t happy, nobody’s happy.”
Tough call. You’re both right. (Which, I guess, means she’s right.)
From the official rules:
“No rent can be collected on mortgaged properties or utilities”
“The player who mortgages property RETAINS POSSESSION OF IT and no other player may secure it by lifting the mortgage from the Bank.”
found at http://richard_wilding.tripod.com/monorules.htm#mortgages
I’ve always played with those rules… (except for the third one… there’s much debate over it)
Also, I believe you are right. If someone lands on your Water Works, they owe you 10x the roll (because you own the electric company). However, if someone lands on your Electric Company they owe nothing because it is mortgaged.
According to the Official Monopoly Tournament Rules…
“If you don’t throw doubles by your third turn, you must pay the $50 fine. You then get out of Jail and immediately move forward the number of spaces shown by your throw.”
“Houses and hotels may be sold back to the Bank at any time for one-half the price paid for them. All houses on one color-group must be sold one by one, evenly, in reverse of the manner in which they were erected.”
“A player landing on “Free Parking” does not receive any money, property or reward of any kind. This is just a “free” resting place.”
Also, I think you get 10x. According to the rules, if you have all of the properties in a color-group and you have mortgaged one, if someone lands on an unmortgaged one, they still pay double rent. Also, if you own all four railroads (or any variant number) and one of them is mortgaged, you get paid the full amount for that number of railroads if they land on one that is not mortgaged.
4x. period.
I don’t feel like explaining why I think so though. haha. Sorry!
You sir are always right unless you differ from me and than I am right.
“My theory was that I should: I do own both utilities. It’s just that I
took out a mortgage against it. You still own equity in a house when
you have a house mortgage.”
this is correct. tell your wife to eat it.
…We make up our own rules, so I have no idea. I could get my mother, the real estate agent, but I think she’d charge you.
We don’t even own real Monopoly, just the Junior version. Now Life, there’s a game. And Sorry! My brother and I fight over whether or not the card that lets you switch allows you to go from start to a place, and the other person’s peg goes back to start.
4x.
like risk, i’ve never played a peaceful, friendly game of monopoly.
Wouldn’t know, I quit playing when I discovered it wasn’t real money.
out of the bulleted list, first rule is correct, I’m not too sure about the second one (I don’t think there’s order to it), and third one is a lie.
i just played monopoly w/ my friend tonite. fun game.
i agree w/ the jail & free parking rule you mentioned. about the house, you have to sell in set of 3, 6, 9, 12, or 15 (same quantity in each property set)
water works: you should only get 4x because you don’t own that property when it’s mortgaged. the bank owns it. just like when any of your property is mortgaged, people don’t pay rent when they land on it.
when you buy houses or hotel, don’t you also have to buy in set of the same color? that was our rule for tonite, thus, when we sell, we have to sell in set as well.
what did you do to the picture module !?
Rule number one shipmate,
Da female types are ALWAYS right.
(if ye ever want any peace in your life that is!!!)
HA!
Sail on… sail on!!!!
I haven’t played monopoly in a long time. I’d say that the property is still in your management if it is mortgaged therefore you get to treat it as though you own it.
I don’t have the patience or the attention span for Monopoly… I am going to side with your wife though… She has to be a smart woman… she married you right? at least that is how you look at it when you ell her she’s right.
The tenant is normally not privy to the financial dealings of the landowner in other venues in the real world and pays the going prices no matter what.
If a tenant could pay less if a property was mortgaged by the actual owner, it would be against the bank’s interest as well. But how cool for tenants if that happened in the real world!
This post made me laugh!!!!
Seems everyone has their own rules on games.
We do the same thing for getting out of jail……BUT……all the taxes and stuff got to free parking so when ya land…..Kapow payday ;o)
As for the utilities if one is mortgaged we play that you only get half
Hmmmmmmm we need to play more board games ….I miss it.
LOL….
you’re with your wife’s family at their home….
their rules prevail.
If your at your house, or your families house…
your rules would prevail.
I call this Host’s rule’s win.
10x definitely… unless you’re a complete idiot who took out a mortgage loan with terms that require you pay 60% of your income in addition to the mortgage payments.
i’m appalled at the Rolling Doubles While in Jail rule. appalled!
and thats funny, my friends were just playing monopoly last night and its crazy, they were playing the new electronic version that uses credit cards instead of cash!!
can you believe that?? Monopoly WITHOUT Monopoly Money!?
what is this world coming too……
No free parking money?! But that’s the best part of the game!
when i play monopoly, the rule is, if you cant collect rent from it, you don’t own it. if you mortgaged broadwalk, do you collect rent from it if someone lands on it? so the same case goes… if someone landed on the electric company, can you collect rent? you can’t because you dont own it and therefore, it should be 4x and not 10.
but yeah… the taxes to free parking thing is really key. to make the game flow better, we also put down $500 there everytime… but that’s a hourserule of course.
-ray leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Hummina what? I like how you’re seriously discussing the mechanics of monopoly.
She’s right! Today is my birthday!!
Blah. Monopoly is one of those games I dread playing. My kids love it, though. Thankfully, they are old enough to argue, I mean play it, on their own.
I wish I knew. I’ve never actually finished a game of Monopoly. If you get into the game, it could be 12 hours before someone wins! No one I know, other than myself, has the patience to play for that long. Good luck! ~Josh
I can’t remember the last time I played Monopoly with real people. The last 10 games I have played was either on my DS Lite or Computer. From what I know, if your property is mortgaged, you can’t collected money on that piece of land (or utilities.) And playing on the computer and DS reflects this rule.
Now, the JOY of monopoly, is the house rules. As far as house rules go, (when I played with real people) if a situation arises that was not addressed earlier, we usually tossed a coin. Then, the rule that is agreed upon will apply on the next time that situation occurs.
yeah, you get the 10X
it says so in the rules.
My mom and I just had a monopoly tournament and there was allllot of rule verification.
I’m all for house rules and whatnot (http://www.basicinstructions.net/2007/11/how-to-create-house-rules.html) but the rules are pretty straightforward on all the above (i.e. they are all correct official rules)
When I was a kid, we played how you could buy one house on a property without owning the entire color set.
btw, regarding your question, the rent is 10x since you own both. You simply can’t collect rent on the other mortgaged property.
Interesting how people think mortgaging works in real life. Actually, more like bizarre.
I’m no expert but here’s my 2 cents. Technically, your wife is right. Legally, I say you are right on the money. Practically, it’s better to let the woman win.
Yu were correct on all counts. In fact, free parkign taxes and fees wreck the game as it means money flows into the game, btu never out, leading to massive inflation and essentially whoever lands on free parking the most wins.
Play by the original rules of Monopoly.
You make things too complicated, you will trap yourself into a controversy.
It’s almost like saying “you’re not allowed to use this Monopoly figurine because it’s too powerful.”
Which Monopoly figurine are you using, perchance?
I’m a self-professed monopoly freak and play the game strictly by the rules. no luxury tax money going into the center of the board, no money collected when you land on free parking, none of this “I’ll let you get 5 free passes on my red property if you give me Illinois Ct. so I can get a monopoly” nonsense.
so to answer your q’s
<li>If you fail to roll doubles the third time (while in jail), you
actually have to pay $50 to the bank anyway. You also have to advance
to whatever property the dice amount shows, even if you didn’t roll a
double.
Yes, you still have to pay if you fail to roll doubles on your third turn. And if you happen to roll a 9 and there’s a hotel on New York Avenue, get ready to fork over $1,000. PERIOD. no BMW-ing. (*itch moan whine) no ands ifs buts about it.
<li>When you return a house, you don’t have to return
three houses at a time – you can just return one house, in the reverse
order that you built them out.
You can definitely return houses just one at a time, as long as you’re breaking them “evenly,” meaning the housing disparity from property to property can be only a single house. For example, if you own Oriental, Vermont and Connecticut and you have 3 houses on each respectively, you can sell back a house on just Oriental. now you’re looking at 2,3 and 3, respectively. The next house you take off your Cyan colored property has to be Vermont or Connecticut. You can’t have 1,3 and 3. But definitely, you can return just one house and it doesn’t have to be in any reverse order either! the only thing that matters is the housing differential from property to property can only be 1 house. PERIOD. no ands, ifs, buts about it.
<li>There is no such thing as Free Parking taxes and fees!!!!!
100% correct.
But
one controversy outshone them all, and the rules book didn’t have the
answer. The Water Works utility card says, “If both Utilities are
owned, rent is 10 times amount shown on dice”:
What
if I own both utilities and someone lands on my Water Works… but my
Electric Company is mortgaged. Should I get 4x the dice or 10x?
I don’t know why this rule is even up for debate. Of course you get 10X! If it’s the other way around and Water Works is mortgaged but Electric Company is not, then you get nothing. but since you own the Utilities monopoly, you are entitled to full value when someone lands on your non-mortgaged property in that monopoly.
Other examples of this rule. Say you own all 4 railroads but B&O RR is mortgaged. Someone lands on Reading RR. you get $200 for owning all 4 railroads. no ifs ands buts about it. PERIOD. say you own Boardwalk and Park Place but Park Place is mortgaged. Someone lands on Boardwalk. Guess what, they owe you $50 X 2 (you get double rent on a monopoly of any undeveloped property). PERIOD. no ifs and buts about it.
The short end of it is that the rule in Monopoly is that you don’t collect rent on a mortgaged property, period. But if that property, even if it is mortgaged, enhances another non-mortgaged property you own, you are entitled to full value if a person lands on the non-mortgaged property involved in the Monopoly.
And lastly, going back to your particular example, if you own both utilities but Water Works is mortgaged and Electric Company is not, you STILL OWN both properties! The bank owns the mortgage on Water Works, not Water Works itself. Repeat. The bank owns the MORTGAGE on Water Works, not Water Works itself. It’s also why the bank collects the mortgage plus 10% when you un-mortgage it. Also, as a 4-year old might reason: both cards are still in front of you, aren’t they?! Just one is flipped and the other isn’t.
Cliffs Notes version: Your wife is wrong.
”So of course, we went nuts and played Monopoly (it’s Saturday night, we were feeling crazy).”
haha yall should’ve played twister.
I don’t know about the “official monopoly rules” but logically speaking, …
You should definitely get the 10X. You are the sole equity holder and entitled to all rights from the property (electric company) . What the bank has, is not equity in your property, but only what you consider a “lein” against your property until your mortgage is paid off. The bank makes its money regardless of whether you profit from your land or not through interest from the mortgage. That has nothing to do with any rents or other revenues that may or may not be generated from the land.
Hahahaahahah I have a very strong personality (some might call me a bully) so for most board games I’ll aquiesce and play by other people’s rules. I’ve heard of most of these tweaks but yours is unique… I say you still own it, but you did flip the card over (right?) so technically it shouldn’t count. Then again, if I were in the same shoes, I’d say it counted
PS The only game I refuse to back down on is Scrabble. Thankfully there are rarely rule disputes in that. Also no one ever wants to play with me, so I guess that lowers the amount of conflict.
lol, best part about monopoly is that everyone has their own rendition of the rules on top of the main rules that everyone knows about. Amongst my favorite is hitting 1000 bux when landing on free parking! w00t!
And my rules also included #1 and #2 on your list.
And as for the “controversy”, I initially agreed with your wife, but gowan makes a good point, so I’m gonna side with him (and essentially side with you)
so to restate, it’s 10X
but i was wrong about one aspect of breaking down housing, apparently it has to be in reverse order. but that can be complicated to keep track of if you added houses without a clear, consistent pattern… more responsibilities the banker has to keep track of perhaps. ha ha.
Anyone who plays Monopoly has more patience than I have. I have never liked the game, ever. I hope you discovered your answer as I would never be any help with Monopoly.
The correct answers to these questions, from the rulebooks are:
1. You have three chances to roll doubles. If you do not, you have to pay $50. If you fail three times in a row, you pay $50 and then get out on your next turn (which is, in total, four turns).
2. OF COURSE you can return one house at a time… where in the fuck does it EVER say you cannot??
3. Free Parking is FREE. You don’t gain money, and you don’t lose any. I cannot tell from your post which one you are talking about. Since gaining money on Free Parking is the only rule anybody ever plays by, I’d assume that’s what you’re talking about. However, according to what you wrote, you are somehow talking about losing money on that space.
4. “If you own both utilities you pay 10x the dice roll.” Not, “If you own both utilities you pay 10x the dice roll, unless one is mortgaged.” You don’t stop paying double rent if you own all the reds iof one is mortgaged do you? Of course not!
I used to play by the regular, standard rule that you pay $50 upon failing on the same turn, until I actually read the rules and found out you are not supposed to. The reason I looked up this rule is because the rules for a different Monopoly game said the same thing, so I checked regular Monopoly to see if that was true there as well.
I still put money in the Free Parking pool, starting with a $500 and then whatwever comes up from certain types of cards to go to the middle for when you land there, even though it is not in the rules to do so. But that is because it doesn’t make sense to play Monopoly without it!! All other rules I now play exactly as the rulebook says.